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The new Laser b**tard

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kingdacks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kingdacks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 13 at 4:33pm
Or why not keep the boat as it is, stop trying to make the laser easier to sail. Sailing is susposed to be challenging and tactical.  The laser is simple enough to be accessible but hard to master, thats why people love it so much. If you want to destroy your boat and make it into some hybrid laser conversion go ahead but I dont suspect youd get many taker around your club or from the 200000 boats sold worldwide. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 7:26am
Originally posted by kingdacks

Or why not keep the boat as it is, stop trying to make the laser easier to sail. Sailing is susposed to be challenging and tactical.  The laser is simple enough to be accessible but hard to master, thats why people love it so much. If you want to destroy your boat and make it into some hybrid laser conversion go ahead but I dont suspect youd get many taker around your club or from the 200000 boats sold worldwide. 


why  not keep the boat as it is?

i) because there's lots and lots and lots of them around, every club has a boat park full and fundamentally, IMO, that's because it's a reasonably good boat to sail and race and very accessible to the majority

ii) small, cheap changes (like re-drilling the hole in the rudder blade) could be implemented by all sailors without excessive cost, certainly less than XD conversion for example

iii) XD controls proves that small changes can make a massive difference to how enjoyable the boat is to sail, it's not neccessarily about making it "easier" but more about making it more enjoyable and even accessible - it's much easier to de-power with the new kicker and cunningham than it was with the old set up

There's no need to change the hull, or radical change to the foils.  OK, a change to spars and sail could be contemplated and put forward for class approval.  However, I don't think it would ever get the official nod, as there's just too much politics and different bodies involved.  Rooster 8.1 proves it's possible to form a class-within-a-class.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 8:57am
Originally posted by kingdacks

Sailing is supposed to be challenging and tactical.


I'm sorry, where is that written again?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 9:44am
Originally posted by kingdacks

The laser is simple enough to be accessible but hard to master, thats why people love it so much.

really?  I guess you've never seen a group of adult newbies step out the back of a reefed Wayfayrer on a L2 course into their (new to them) Laser.  

First off, many simply can't gybe it... yeah, yeah, get the 'flick' right and the mainsheet won't hook.  So they've got to develop a technique which powers up the rig mid point in a gybe?  Hardly accessible...

There's no stays, so you 'run by the lee'... fine, I like that, think it's great even; but it's hardly a beginner friendly technique compared to sailing angles in a stayed rig boat like a Solo

They have low freeboard, meaning they encourage a straighter leg hike.  That is NOT accessible to most people if you took a cross section of the active adult sailing population.  What's the average age after 18 in most clubs?  Ours must be late 40's I'd have thought.

The reason people 'love their Laser' is because it provides close and competitive racing at a relatively affordable entry point... that's it.  It certainly isn't for the love of the boat itself in most cases.    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 11:14am
Two types of people like Lasers.

First type indoctrinated from childhood (most of you lot) in love with the myth of everyone being equal in the 'same' sailboat. Here is the news - you aint - you all are very different sizes and weights and the boat is low volume which means it's weight sensitive so condition dependant some are very more equal than others.

Second type. 'It's cheap I think I'll get into sailing how difficult can it be' hence the hundreds of boats sitting unused in boat parks.

If Laser had done what was necessary a few years back and introduced variants of the original concept which wouldn't have been that difficult, maybe they wouldn't have wasted so much money. Are they going away? This deal with the RS2000 doesn't leave them much to run a business with does it? I can't see lots of new Laser 1's being sold, they'll have the new rig (If that were me I wouldn't sell it separately so if you wanted the new rig you'd have to buy the whole boat which would head off all the chiselling cheap skates)

I'd also have continued to develop this EPS, I can't believe they let it go, there's not a lot wrong with it, nothing that couldn't be modified and improved in the Mk2 version. Oh no I forgot, dinghy class etiquette once you make a boat you can't change it, so it has to die.. You couldn't make it up really could you, how to kill a business...

Edited by iGRF - 16 Jan 13 at 11:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 11:38am
Really have to agree with most of the points made by Pondmonkey & GRF on this.

To my idea the Laser has been forced into something it's not. I get the impression it was designed as a cheap fun beach boat, left like that it's fine. Trouble is, I can't see where it's cheap for what you get, three alloy tubes, a soft sail & simple hull n foils. Then to try to force it into top class racing where every inch matters you now an expensive XD kicker option to bend the boom like a banana and a cunningham that will destroy a sail in no time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 11:59am
I know lots of people who love their Lasers, and not only for the racing - many don't race them. They just like the boat - you can go blasting up and down and have a fun, wet time. However, there are bits they often don't like - the corner, and the rudder. I've seen duck tape round the back corner so the rope slips off (not class legal, but costs pennies, so why not?) and rudders bodged to go further down.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 12:08pm
The thing that really gets me is people, who don't sail the boat, saying. "Oh yeah do this, do that, this would make it better, that would make it better"

In reality they are not the people who are ever likely to set foot in a Laser.

Please stop trying to change a boat you have no interest in sailing.

There is a clearly defined procedure for suggesting and making changes to the boat. Those who are class members know what it is (or should know, it is no secret) and many minor changes have been approved over the last few years.

If you don't want a Laser then sail something else (as many do). 

The reason I sail a laser is because I know I can jump in the boat after weeks of being out of it and still perform pretty much at my full potential. In other classes I have sailed you cannot do that and it does frustrate me (hence why I currently sail a class that fits my sailing demographic).

As for cheap, I agree that new they are way over priced for what they are. However, you can get a secondhand boat for around 1k that is perfectly capable of winning at club and open meeting level if you give it a little TLC and, when you come to sell it, you are likely to get your money back. How many classes can boast that?

The boat has it's faults but without it how healthy would the sailing scene in the UK be?
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 12:16pm
So on theis one page we have summerised;
 
1) Why there will (probably) always be a place for the Laser in competitive sailing
 
and
 
2) Why (if it's done right, at the right price) there is a fantastic potential market for something like the Rooster Project X.
 
Hurry up Steve! LOL
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 13 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Bootscooter

So on theis one page we have summerised;
 
1) Why there will (probably) always be a place for the Laser in competitive sailing
 
and
 
2) Why (if it's done right, at the right price) there is a fantastic potential market for something like the Rooster Project X.
 
Hurry up Steve! LOL

Hear hear!
Paul
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