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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:08am
Originally posted by Chris 249

FWIW I don't really believe that it's a fair test.... if one had two sailors of identical ability the one who spent the extra cash to have a Radial rig lying around would have an advantage.

Vindicated at last. I always felt that people who spent more cash and bought new boats while I was stuck with my old tub were cheating!

But most of the talk has been about series. There are plenty of one-off races at clubs where there will be no question of 'changing' rigs - you'll have one for the one-race event. If you're off to the Bloody Mary and it's F.1-2 is 55kg you going to stick your usual '5' on when you could use a '9'? I don't think so.

The results of all these one-off races where lightweights use a big rig and vice versa to suit the conditions, as well as the clubs which permit switching in a series, will drive the PYs down. Fair or not, like it or not. If you don't switch, you will suffer, fact.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:20am
There aren't enough one off races for them to have a big effect on the handicap.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:23am
So if you enter as a full laser  to every race, but it's blowing 20 + knots and your boat and you have a smaller sail in the car! what is the difference to reefing a vision! wayfarer, 600 etc?

I agree that it shouldn't be a free for all allowing you to sail a bigger sail when it's light on effectively the same series handicap, but surely the ability to reduce sail in difficult conditions is encouraging good seamanship. I always had an old radial sail and if it was howling would use it or I just wouldn't have gone out and of course had some of the best laser sails ever when radiated up in a blow.

I personally think that class racing is class racing, but reefing down at club level is fairly normal. Let's not forget that personal body weight is a huge factor in a boat with a hull weight of 30kg, so apart from at the extremes, a 95kg trading down from a 9 to a 7 is going to suffer.


Edited by SimonW99 - 26 Sep 14 at 9:24am
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:25am
The fairer way would be what some windsurfer classes do, so assuming the Laser main is what the boat is that is being contested, then if light folk get to use the Radial or 4.7 when it's windy then heavy folk should get to use the 8.1 Rooster type sail in light (but anyone under say 85kgs isn't permitted).

On that basis the Aero 7 would be the standard say and I'd get to use the 5 in a breeze but say Maxibuddah would get to use the 9 and across a series of events, you take your chance. Having said that I'm not sure how powerful that 7 is or indeed what size it is, it sounds small, whereas I could see myself easily overpowered by that ancient piece of crap that powers a Laser and 'they' tell me the radial is a better cut sail being of more recent (80's) design. (Isn't it time someone re rigged the whole damned thing?)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:26am
Nothing to stop you using a Radial sail on windy days, but why count it towards your series score? We are constantly told on here that no-one about series position, so just enjoy the windy day as a one off race.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:30am
Originally posted by Rupert

In terms of Lasers, it would surprise me at all if a fairly large % of the "Laser" returns are in fact for Radials. The only way for this not to happen to the Aero is for the boats to actually use the number when they are signing on. By extension, I would then expect people, when asked what they sail, to say "an Aero 7", a bit like you might say "a Laser 5000". I just can't see that happening.

I would agree, our handicap raced Lasers and Radials are split appropriately (unless someone is claiming the full rig handicap which is something we are likely to stop doing in the near future).
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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:31am
There is no such thing as 'rig switching'. It is class switching. To claim otherwise is disingenuous.

You may want to change rig/class to improve your enjoyment in varying conditions, but I *perceive* it as wanting to change to increase your chances of winning. And to quote the wise-beyond-her-years Cheryl (formerly) Cole "that much ambition is ugly".

RS know that launching a new class is difficult. Launching three new classes at once would be near impossible, especially ones that overlap. So, from a marketing perspective it makes sense to push them/it as one design, three rigs. And don't highlight the fact they are different by making them visibly indistinguishable. When it comes to class racing they will race as three separate classes but when it comes to mixed fleet racing I suspect confusion will reign and folk will abuse the system. I do feel this is disrespectful to club racing though. We wonder why club racing numbers dwindle?
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:33am
Originally posted by JimC

There aren't enough one off races for them to have a big effect on the handicap.

"as well as the clubs which permit switching in a series"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:35am
I hate to bring it back to the same old argument, but if the handicap system were more defined by the boat performance quotient than the averages of pond life, it wouldn't be a problem, the handicap would take care of it, particularly if the crew weight range were defined as part of it and there were strict guide lines appropriately used.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 14 at 9:52am
Of course part of the problem is you all wanting simplicity, so masts on these boats are just poles in holes. If you have a deck mounted mast and an adjustable forestry like the Supernova, you can depower so much most people don't need to have a smaller sail.
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