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The Tasar v the Icon

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Tasar v the Icon
    Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 1:23pm
So one turned up to race on Sunday, it's quite light isn't it? Waterline length seems not too different to the Icon which now seems heavy by comparison, the sail area looks like it might be a tad smaller, but waterline length seems similar, I remember a work colleague from Dakine campaigns one and comes over on occasion when they have their worlds over at Whitstable.

Does confirm the Yardstick committee have lost the plot a bit though doesn't it? The Tasar at 1023 and the Icon at 969 one of them must be wrong..

Or are we still not allowed to question them in case we hurt their feelings?

Edited by iGRF - 14 Jul 14 at 1:24pm
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boatshed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 1:32pm
The Icon is 30 years or so newer, it has 13% more sail area, it has a carbon rig and it has 3% longer water line length.

The Icon PY of 969 is probably not far out.

What is more remarkable is the Tasar has a PY of 1023
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 1:41pm
It just goes to show how right the Tasar was all those years ago, swiveling mast, light weight and all. They do LOOK a bit dated now however. Last year I sorted mine out, sailed it once then put it back into the nettles....I really must drag it out again........
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 1:45pm
Actually I'm wrong, I quoted their website, it is now 1018 allegedly, which of course looks perfectly correct up against the RS500's 975, oops that looks wrong as well, it has a trapeze and the Icon doesn't, then of course there is the Laser 3000 at 1058. Oh dear that looks a bit peculiar as well..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Actually I'm wrong, I quoted their website, it is now 1018 allegedly, which of course looks perfectly correct up against the RS500's 975, oops that looks wrong as well, it has a trapeze and the Icon doesn't, then of course there is the Laser 3000 at 1058. Oh dear that looks a bit peculiar as well..


They are peculiar because they are anomalous and skewed numbers from a small sample.    The L3000 sent in 450 returns in 2014.  That could have been from 4 or 5 keen boats sailing in their club h/cap races during the year.   The RS 500 isn't much better.  They are quite recent boats with low build numbers.    Whereas the Tasar is an old war horse and has been around ages, so, will have a pretty fair PY.    As does the Laser 1 and Laser Radial.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 2:54pm
The L3000, when it was being raced rather more than it appears to be now, by people who also did the L3000 circuit, had a handicap of 1030, which was very similar to the L2, the boat with which it shares a hull. The latest figure does look like one from a boat on the slide, numbers and skills wise.

Whether the Tasar handicap is fir, I have no idea. There aren't that many in the UK, so the sample will be small, which leaves less scope for personal handicapping not to be a problem.

For the boats sailed by few people, and clubs where there is "one of each", there are bound to be problems with getting enough data. You have banged on about this regularly, but I notice it never seems to be the class you are sailing that has the bandit handicap, always your rivals. At some point, are you going to work out what the common factor is?
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by boatshed

The Icon is 30 years or so newer, it has 13% more sail area, it has a carbon rig and it has 3% longer water line length.

The Icon PY of 969 is probably not far out.

What is more remarkable is the Tasar has a PY of 1023


I think 969 is quite a long way out. The results were taken from a small sample of very good sailors so do not represent the average sailor. 1000 to 1005 is more like it bearing in mind a Merlin Rocket is 990...
Needs to sail more...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 3:12pm
Well Rupert, I don't go around selecting old or lipstick classes precisely because they are 'Bandits' I see myself as a champion of fair play and like nothing more than to pick holes in a tired and corrupt system that favours old people sailing their coffins around lakes and ruins the pleasures of those of us on the sea that like to campaign a menagerie of boats fairly.

The weekends race contained an L3k a V3k two Snipes, two RS500's several Lasers, a Contender,the Merlin (Going as fast at times as us and the 500's off wind, a Hornet, as well as Feva's, a Vago, the Tasar, a Phantom, and us in the Alto, we accept we have to go some to win and screwed up so didn't.

Not a race that one would expect fair handicapping on anyway with it's long reach point to point, but one at which the public come to watch and to ask questions, we were lucky this time because the boat that crossed the line first actually did win so no need for tricky explanations to friends and relatives about a stupid system that often distorts the results unfairly because some inland sailors in a galaxy far far away might have chosen some other boat to sail or send returns in about this year...

Edited by iGRF - 14 Jul 14 at 3:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 3:30pm
Are the Alto's not having their Nationals at Sailfest, Calshot, next month? If us peculiar Northern boys can get there complete with ferrets and brown ale surely you can hook a boat onto the back of your electric Porsche Cayenne and whirr down. We will share our clod and stickin pies if you  let us smell your Pims. I will even scrape the mud from my navel and comb the hair on my back in honor of meeting you. x
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 14 at 3:51pm
I'm never going to do another Nationals after that horror story at the RS100 event, I don't 'do' getting timed out when I'm trying to learn something and particularly not when I'm sponsoring the fecking event and you sailors going off for a curry and bed at 8 in the evening, not what I remember "nationals" being about, nor do I want to become a total alcoholic to do Merlin week, there is a happy medium and I think I found it in the FOM events if ever there is another, I shall go to that and maybe persuade Trev, but in truth his illness is not such that he can be travelling all over the place or spend long hours out on the water at the pleasure of some dingo psycho race officer hosebeast.

So chum unlikely you'll see me at an event these days unless maybe I hitch up a single hander...
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