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The Tasar v the Icon

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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 14 at 7:12pm
Mike,
I was lucky in that I knew already that there was a reasonable degree of freedom in the layout and set up. Actually, with the exception of the sheeting set up for the main and the provision of a thwart for the crew, the boat (as already said) was well presented. I'm keen to try it at Netley in the estuarial 'slop' that we get.... maybe do some 2 boat working up with the one at Warsash!

All joking aside now, iGRF's feedback will be interesting as he is at the other end of the weight range. If.... (again, a big if) but if the sums add up, then we should both be happy!

But well done all the same,

D
Dougal H
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 14 at 7:48pm
Hi Dougal

There will be a few at 'Sailfest' in late August ..... maybe we can tempt you with a loan boat as well ?  This is a 100% serious offer.   But we can do something sooner as well.   You will find Icon cuts through 'slop' in a manner very similar to many Cats and very effectively ..... with little slamming and loss of speed.  

It is extremely rare to get much water coming into the cockpit.  Many boats clatter over the top of stuff like 'Solent Slop' or bounce and slam but Icon just 'slices and dices'.  Yes I know I know we are terribly biased .... so the only way is for people to try and make up their own minds.   No boat will ever be perfect but Icon really does its stuff rather nicely.

Mike L.


Edited by blaze720 - 24 Jul 14 at 7:49pm
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Miles J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Miles J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 14 at 8:12pm
As the other part of the 110yrs in the Icon today, I would say that I was seriously impressed with it's performance, simplicity and functionality. My personal preference of mainsheet arrangement would have been different, but that did not detract from positive first impression I had.  The option of a thwart I think is a plus. Do they come with disposable ones for when the wind picks up?

We  did have on board a portable GPS system, and the upwind speed is impressive

A yes from me.
Hadron
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 14 at 8:44pm
This jib stick lark is really impressive. When the 'former boy' was barely a boy, about 13/14 I crewed our Grad for him which was fitted with our 'mop handle' dangly pole. I used to have the pole control in one hand and the sheet in the other when reaching. That way I could keep things under control during variable gusts. Last night with the Tasar we just left the jib stick alone....too much trouble....but had we been using a dangly we would have deployed it downwind and reaching. If I could find a decent helm to sit behind  me in the Tasar I may illegally fit a dangly......just for fun. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 14 at 9:29pm
Do they come with disposable ones for when the wind picks up?

Not quite ..... We did consider 'industrial grade' velcro but opted in the end for polysulhide mastic.  Anyway - no holes in hull / deck mounding are required and it can be removed with a bit of time and care.  The standard advise Cirus  gives prospective owners is try it 'without' for a few weeks knowing that you can easily fit one later if you feel the need.

We emulated the way most modern NS14s were run in some of the early prototype work - and decided, at least for us, that their approach (without) offered advantages once you got to understand the boat.   It all depends on what you have sailed previously or prefer.   I think maybe 50% will opt for a conventional thwart in the boat but 2/3rds plus will learn and adapt to 'off the boom sheeting' .... All this really is your choice.

Mike L.

PS - I forgot about the Graduate - Oops !    Perhaps the Firefly and Tasar could usefully run experiments / trials with the dangly - not much to lose and quite lot to gain imo.  Might be a bit more of challenge with a rotating mast though on the Tasar.   Dangle poles can be very inexpensive and retrofitted easily enough.


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iiitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 14 at 9:48pm
Tasar has of course long sliding jib tracks so you can slide out and sheet in. This is pretty good for leech control but the sheeting destroys leech shape...if that makes sense? The thing with the pole is that it controls the shape, by pushing down the tack at what ever angle you are sheeted at. Like a kicker I suppose.

Last night it was quite windy in race one and charging downwind at a mob of Supernovas I would have loved to deployed the pole but when we got into their turbulent wind approaching the gybe mark I would have struggled to unclip it. Had we been using a dangly simply uncleating would have sorted it all out.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 14 at 10:40pm
Well we had a right battle royale tonight, now bear In mind I'm in a new boat with a new guy I'd never sailed with, a new member down from Chipstead. I'm going to start with all the bad things and there are loads of them. For starters what is it with that zip jib system that's knaff, I couldn't get anywhere near enough jib entry tension, not happy with that, in fact the whole jib is the boats weak point imv but more of that later.
Then there's the 'slippy' factor, I'm sliding around like a bar of soap on an ice rink, I swear to God wing wang's tipped her suntan lotion all over everything, or there's still release agent, my splitties are in their super grippy phase but even they were skating about the floor and the none slip - it aint.
Then putting it together, the muppets have left a frayed end on the main sheet that had to be sorted, and I wasn't quite sure how to rig that sheeting system, but cobbled something together, it's rear sheeted, but with just one block on the boom and another on the floor, nowhere to cleat it which made tacking for someone who's used to dropping the sheet in the cleat to change hands, very difficult without the spinning about doing a triple salko on the ice rink as you go through.
We managed to cope with the crew taking the sheet to ensure we got sheeted in quick enough, but fumbled about at the start and ended up second rank, after the b**tards tried to luff us over and we had to duck down under them. I hate the kicker being where it is and having to operate it left handed on Port, this off boom crap, I'm not loving it at all.

Now having said all that and in tricky North Easterly gusty sh*tty wind with a bit of a tide racing, we managed to hold off the Merlin, they got by us a couple of times on the down wind leg, with their kite, but we managed to hunt a couple of better shifts upwind and clawed the lead back to finish a few boat lengths ahead after a very enjoyable and very knackering battle, I'm having to have a bit of a lie down whilst writing this.

It's a surprisingly lively boat, something compared to the Alto you feel on the Edge with, if it's not the fear of death rolling on the down wind leg running the dangly pole by the lee, or the rolling up on a tight reach in the gusts. (We're collectively 142 kgs a tad on the light side).

The course was two broad reach/runs and a tight 2nd reach on the triangle, so they had the off wind advantage with their kite and reeled us in when the wind lulled. We had a couple of moments when the acceleration kicked in, she does go when she gets her tail up, I was probably stood too far back most of the time, sailing a bit defensively, new boat and all that, but once over the hump of a wave, that slicey nose cuts deep and stops you dead, so some running up and down is needed, but not until the slippery surface is dealt with.

She's very sensitive to balance that jib, it's very easy to get wrong and we were playing with it a lot, but it's easy to feel when you're starving it by over sheeting, I didn't mess with the barbara things, i think maybe we should have them back a bit if you're crewing in gusty stuff you do tend to hang on to the sheet and naturally over sheet and being light stuffing it is a defensive move in the gusts, but if you keep an eye on the main which does get backed by the jib, you get the power on and it doesn't seem to me to be a boat that likes to be stuffed and heeled, it works better when it's flat. having said that a couple of times we heeled it and got the tide on the lee bow and took ten boat lengths out of the Merlin riding the inside of a lift and the right side of the tide, so I'm not totally certain, one race aint enough to call it, but I got in it, with a new crew and finished first over the water, so it can't be all that bad can it?
Imagine what someone good and heavier could have done, if the Merlin truly is 990 then we sailed it to 989.

Not enough to take the Laser of course and at 969 we finished third once the spreadsheet had cut in.

I'm looking forward to another go.

After I've waxed it of course.

Edited by iGRF - 24 Jul 14 at 11:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 14 at 11:35pm
I shall cast our previous argument into the bin of bagged dog sh*t and talk about sailing. I can't be bothered to read what you wrote again, but you kept up with a Merlin? I bet you could never kept up with a Merlin in a Merlin first time out. That must say something. You used the pole? then you obviously mastered the pole, 'first time out' You also never used the barbour haulers but still managed a creditable performance, 'against said Merlin.

A bit more practice should improve things, adapt to the boat, do not adapt the boat to you and NEVER put surf wax on some one else's boat!

It seems fashionable to make everything slippery and shiny but a beer towel sewn on your arse should sort it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 6:55am
"Ice rink"

Serious question; What were you wearing on your feet GRF?

I've raced against Mike in the Icon and skating did not seem to feature as far as I recall.

And to adapt the ubiquitous giftshop sign, "you say waxed, we say sold"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 8:49am

.... 'time on the water'   -  answer to most things  Wink

Slippy ?  Not usually a problem at all.   Should be fine as the boat cannot be that old... in fact it might be the opposite and it has probably not been used enough yet.  But might be as simple as that shiny PVC 'specialist interest sailing kit' we've heard about not really helping.

Tippy ?  It is amazingly forgiving in fact.  Just like NSs Icon is reasonably narrow on the water but heel it say 20 degrees either way and it doubles in width .... and the ultra-light rig helps as well.  You really have to screw things up badly to capsize in fact - though still possible.  You will get away with many an incident that would have you in the water in many other classes.  

Fore / aft trim - the hull is different and upwind in displacement conditions you should have about 7-8 cm of bow in the water ... once planing it will generally clear the water and just clip wave tops.   This type of hull shape is very very efficient but while you can get away with murder as you gain experience you need to think about your own position in the boat to maximise VMG. 

Best advice - try all sorts of things out and play with the boat.  It is the way kids often really learn instinctive sailing as they try all sorts of possibly daft things while playing with their boats...  Icon is very simple and you will 'get it' quite quickly.... but it really does reward practice, guile and technique ! 

Mike L.

Below - Mike/Charlotte Bell .... (eerm 90ish kg and possibly 52kg - so a bit lighter than the 'GRF combo' in F4 gusting F5 at Poole)





Edited by blaze720 - 25 Jul 14 at 9:01am
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