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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by iGRF

There are questions you can apply equally to both boats, ..removed... (but were nothing to do with my decision)

But no-one is asking them on the Zero thread.

That's the difference boys and why the RS camp aint happy.

I'll delete them once you've read it, then maybe call it a day with the bitching?

Graeme, perhaps someone should, not that I know what these questions are.  But if no one is asking, then maybe they are not questions.  I have asked genuine questions, which in some cases have been answered and in others blatantly not.  But they are all valid.  You see I am a bit of a sailing geek, I like knowing about how things work, what class rules are, how things are built.  I am the same with other hobbies.  So if I ask a question its not always loaded.  You see the way I see it. You can't have things both ways.  If you want to use the forum to publicise the. You need to take the rough with the smooth.  It was very smooth with the 100 launch a perfect example of how to manipulate this particular media.  However what we have here is several threads just duplicated in the hope that someone will post something new to talk about.  The reason so many of these questions have been asked is there doesn't seem to be people sailing them!  The reason the other thread is a more happier vibe is people who have bought the boat are posting with the new host fuzzy feeling so it's all sweetness and light!   I'm sure that will change.  People will take ownership of their aero's over the next 5 months and there will be constructive discussion around tuning, which rig people run, py's again! And again and again.  But until such point as people sail them it's just a load of second hand info regurgitated with some questions that need/needed answering.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 11:07pm
The thing is, whatever you say, owners are going to be upbeat, so why question that?

They are both bloody good things, I don't share the negative view of the dacron, for instance, I like all the extra 'bling' bits the Aero has but the Zero doesn't, not least the rudder attachment, that bit is one of the most tedious things I have to do on all the bloody boats I've owned and it won't be an issue for that Aero, I really don't see it as a contest between two boats. I think folk who are very serious about racing are used to using what shall I call most boats? Crap? Well they will be more than happy to upgrade to either but will probably err toward the Zero, it is a consummate racers tool.

The Aero however will win out in certain locations and it doesn't surprise me that coastal waters are where the first are appearing, not everyone likes a 'wet' boat and manoeuvring it on and off the trailer will be a problem on some beaches without anything to grab hold of, as will the nodule under the self baler, then there is the visual, one mans meat is always another mans poisson, that's how markets are, so they will both sell well and I genuinely don't think there is a killer standout sales objection to either, locations excepted of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 11:43pm
What bling bits do you like then Graeme?  Short of a kick up rudder?  I must say, the Dacron sail on the aero's doesnt bother me, not for the reasons given.  But because I don't mind Dacron sails.  I don't find them particularly old fashion.  They will work and will give long life for the owner.  That's not a bad thing.   If I was given the option of the two I know what I would pick, but a Dacron sail would never be a deal breaker for me. Especially in an smod fleet, everyone's should be the same!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 11:58pm
I like the 'mock' carbon trailing edges on the foils, I like the cupholder, and as I said the killer feature, the new rudder pintle release device.

Having said that I like the Wire halyard of the Zero, and the boom pivot assembly , there's just so much to like with both of them, back in the day, for a mere ten grand I'd have had them both, wouldn't have batted an eyelid, how times have changed, blame austerity for that.

The Zero did miss a trick not encompassing the Punk sheeting system though, that a was disappointing economy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 6:35am
Originally posted by sargesail

Russ,

When someone kicks in with the kind of negativity you expressed up front I'm not surprised it's been slower.

And I have noted that you are being very careful not to be say anything rude about the boat itself.  Shame that doesn't extend to the wrap around it - ie your comments about delivery.  Or mentioning the negative comments on the other thread.  Very clever to say there was lots of nonsense - then let James criticise the boat - then retract the fact that it was nonsense.

So I'm afraid I don't buy into your assertion that you are not criticising.  And if you're not meaning to then perhaps you should be even more careful how you put things.

I'd love to be able to filter posts from you in this thread - but that facility isn't available.  And I's only read them quoted - not least in the James/Russ double act.


+1

Its fair play to come on these boards are post about classes you are promoting, it's also fair play IMO, to comment on boats you've sailed or experienced or new ideas or polls put forward.  Where some of this crosses the line is the sniping being conducted by certain posters at certain brands
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 7:16am
Rubbish, tregardless if you like it or not they are genuine questions.  Which have never been answered properly.  I understand as rs sailors you like to protect the brand, but like I have said 3 times now.  I have not slated the product, I have asked questions about some either unsubstantiated claims, or areas I feel need clarity.  I'm sorry if you don't like it,but that's the fact!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 7:24am
Exactly- and if 'snipping' is raising questions of a brand, garnered through experience of owning that brand's product, then I think there is some validity.

No one buys an Alfa and expects BMW build quality- that doesn't make all Alfas bad cars, or indeed universally unreliable and short lifespan products.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mongrel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 7:56am
Originally posted by Null

Rubbish, tregardless if you like it or not they are genuine questions.  Which have never been answered properly.  I understand as rs sailors you like to protect the brand, but like I have said 3 times now.  I have not slated the product, I have asked questions about some either unsubstantiated claims, or areas I feel need clarity.  I'm sorry if you don't like it,but that's the fact!
We are you asking these questions when you have no interest in buying anything that's not from Rodney?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 8:01am
Maybe because some of those questions relate to racing where both boats are on the water?

If the (for examples sake) the Supernova class released a Supernova light with a cut down sail as a new class for women and lightweights, wouldn't the same concerns about managing handicaps be raised?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cad99uk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 8:25am
If the zero is going to get a smaller sail, won't the same questions about rig swapping and handicaps apply to that too?
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