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New Laser Rig from Doyle?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Laser Rig from Doyle?
    Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 10:40am
In proper boats that is to suit the sailor  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 10:10am
So not distance of toe straps to side decks then!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 10:03am
Hiking positions depend on the depth of the cockpit, width of the side decks and freeboard. The wide side decks, shallow cockpit and low freeboard of the Laser demand a straight leg hiking position compared to a Finn. Hiking is an unnatural pursuit however you do it but I never had any knee or back problems in my OK with it's deep cockpit and high (ish) freeboard.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 10 Nov 18 at 10:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 18 at 9:55am
Conversely at 6í3 in my 300 and 200 Iíve spent a lot of effort getting my toe straps further from the side decks... too many people think hiking is about getting you as far out then dropping into some awful hiking position with everything trying to lever your knees apart, better to have your legs further in and Ďlockedí in and use your upper body to provide the leverage. Never found a laser to be that bad if your hiking style is good, and thereís enough kids in 4.7 having fun and not hobbling up the beach!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 18 at 8:46pm
At 5' 6" that is definitely not my experience. I sailed an OK in my youth (and a couple of times since) and, despite being wider than a Laser, it has the toestraps much closer to the side decks, this makes it far more comfortable to sail.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 18 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

TBF they had 'conventional' tapered masts (and, mostly, standing rigging). Gains on the Laser scaff pole will be small compared to a 'proper' mast.

The toe strap arrangement is an abomination. It doesn't matter how much you 'adjust' it you still need long legs to reach the damn thing and if you are less than 6' 4" Dead. It's not called the 'knee wrecker' for nothing....

No argument WRT design goals though......


I think you protest too much. It is far more a knee wrecker for those over 6' because the boat is too narrow. Whenever I've sailed it I ignore the toestrap and just jam my toes under the leeward plastic strip on the cockput sides. Does not take long to lose feeling in the toes and so you end up shuffling between modes as the pain gets too much.

I suspect that the Laser is at its best for those of average height, someone around 5'10" which would make total sense as the most popular dinghy in the world by far.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 18 at 11:21pm
TBF they had 'conventional' tapered masts (and, mostly, standing rigging). Gains on the Laser scaff pole will be small compared to a 'proper' mast.

The toe strap arrangement is an abomination. It doesn't matter how much you 'adjust' it you still need long legs to reach the damn thing and if you are less than 6' 4" Dead. It's not called the 'knee wrecker' for nothing....

No argument WRT design goals though......


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Nov 18 at 11:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 18 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Laser class will not do another mast mod for years, 'so' sail designers need to design sail for existing mast, Sail that doesn't need eye watering kicker and downhaul would be a major step up, this would mean sail and mast would last longer, Sail that would work with a stiff upper mast and weaker bottom.
Hiking straps that could adjust using existing fixing points, not to difficult a tablet to swallow.
Rudder this is another easy fix.
Corners for me are biggest issue.


New class rule allows a cleat to fddle with the toestrap around the course. Some smaller people than me manage to hike their radials very effectively, so it obviously isn't that bad.

What is this talk of  a 'weak' bottom mast section?
It's stout. It is a big tube with fat walls. Sectional moment of inertia that makes scaffold poles cry.
At least until it rots under the gooseneck and kicker tang...
Anyway, just as you buy a lower mast for a Radial or a 4.8, you could buy a lower mast for a Gorilla rig.Maybe thinner metal high up and sleeved low down? Need not be rocket science.

I'm not a sailmaker either, but ISTM it ought to be possible to get some gain from long top battens and roach. There is a lot of freedom there. Other classes made big gains with full length top battens or even fully-battened sails before the Laser was even around.

Biggest problem would probably be agreeing clear design goals.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 18 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Peaky

There are boats that fix all these issues, but then itís no longer a Laser...


Indeed.
You could fix all the superficial design flaws of the Laser, but that would only leave you with another layer of design 'features' which come from its legacy.
There are other classes you can buy into. For a lot more money.
And which of them is perfect?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 18 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Laser class will not do another mast mod for years, 'so' sail designers need to design sail for existing mast, Sail that doesn't need eye watering kicker and downhaul would be a major step up, this would mean sail and mast would last longer, Sail that would work with a stiff upper mast and weaker bottom.
Hiking straps that could adjust using existing fixing points, not to difficult a tablet to swallow.
Rudder this is another easy fix.
Corners for me are biggest issue.


It doesn't need to be Laser, a third party can make a new rig like Rooster make the 8.1 (sure they might get a bit of flack from LP but Rooster seem to have coped ok). I'm not a sailmaker but I can't see how you could design a sail that would open the leech in response to gusts using that mast. 

Hiking straps are already adjustable, and on the water, using the standard fixings but they need to be closer to the sides (so double straps) for short people so different fixings are essential.

As you say rudders an easy fit but corners would require major surgery so probably a none starter, allowing a centre mainsheet would be an easier solution (and a stiffer boom).

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