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elzorillo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elzorillo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Race rules...
    Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 9:05am
Yeah there is a seperate category for this.. but it looks poorly attended so...

A few times I've been in this situation.. half a dozen boats in front of me all calling for water on each other..

I'm coming up a couple of boat lengths behind and the outermost boat starts shouting at me .. 'No Water!! you cant go in there!!'. as I said this has happened a few times now and I just dont know the rule here. If the outer boats are pushed wide.. why cant I just follow the inner boat round the mark?

I did a poor diagram. (I'm green.. shouty man is red).







Edited by elzorillo - 11 Sep 19 at 9:07am
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 9:13am
The call is for " mark room " rather than " water" in the current rules.

The overlap to get "room" is established at three boat lengths from the mark. And if you dont have it then you cant push in later.

So the shouty man saying " you cant go in there" is still shouty- but correct if by doing so you establish an overlap.

But in my view nothing to stop you following,indeed a good sailor will often slow down to avoid being on the outside of a huge raft of boats and then sail a shorter course round the mark.






Edited by ian.r.mcdonald - 11 Sep 19 at 9:17am
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elzorillo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote elzorillo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 9:23am
So are you saying I can follow the boat closest to the mark but only so long as I dont gain any advantage over the red boat? I have to stay back? if that's the case, for how long? 

Edited by elzorillo - 11 Sep 19 at 9:23am
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ian.r.mcdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 9:31am
I wait for someone better qualified to correct me, but I would say that you need to avoid establishing an inner overlap that gives you an advantage with the three boat length " zone".

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NickM99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickM99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 9:37am
You will often find that the outside boats ahead of you line abreast will slow and try to round close to the mark in line astern.  There is no right to barge in.  As Ian says you need to slow down and hang back.  Sometimes an inside gap might open up.

Edited by NickM99 - 11 Sep 19 at 9:50am
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 9:58am
More interesting is in a big fleet where the red boat might be outside the three length circle, but green boat is in the circle and has an overlap by way of red boat heading up toward the mark ...
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 10:02am
If you're confident that the red boat and others can't get up to you then you can risk rounding up hard on the mark.  But if one of them manages to luff up to the mark and you're in the way, you'll be penalised.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 10:44am
If there's several boats overlapped and giving each another mark room, especially when rounding up to close hauled,  they often will not go around the mark side by side, but instead the outside boats will slow and round nose to stern and close to the mark. The reason for this is that if you're coming out of a leeward mark, unless you're one of the first boats to round, then being slightly to leeward of that line of boats will see in you dirty air with little option to tack out. 

However, you may get lucky and some of the boats ahead may chose an outside rounding, in which case if they get themselves in to a position where then can't close you out because they must give water to the boat immediately in front of you and inside them at the mark, then you'll be fine. 

The difficulty is, people often make the decision about whether they go round the outside or slow and round bow to stern and close in to the mark quite late and it can be hard to read peoples intentions.  If you're going to try and slip in inside then you need the boat handling to also make the call late, plus the good manners to quickly tack out if the boat ahead slows and then goes tight for the mark.  

Finally, if 4 boats are lined up bow to stern, then the 4th boat may not have entered the zone and given their angle in to the mark most the boats behind could have an inside overlap. If you come in position of the green boat in this scenario then you might be able to get room on the 4th boat. It would be a tight call however, and the rules say if there is any doubt about whether an overlap was gained in time then benefit of doubt is given to the boat ahead.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 11:36am
In that situation, assuming there are no other boats to windward of green you are almost certainly better off rounding behind and close to the mark (i.e. as far to windward as possible) the next leg is a close reach or a very one sided beat (if the latter, green will end up having to tack for the next mark having given away a couple of boat lengths with his wide rounding where a close rounding boat may make it in one) so pinch hard after the mark and you'll likely gain an overlap by the next mark.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 11 Sep 19 at 11:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 19 at 12:33pm
Under rule 18 you do not have any rights to Mark Room.

That said there is nothing stopping you following the inside boat through as long as you do not impede any of the other boats (i.e. you make sure you keep clear).

Many times I have come down a run behind a big group of boats, they all squabble at the mark and end up leaving a nice big gap which I take and usually get past most of them by the next mark.

It is a risk but as long as you keep clear you are fine. If you fail to keep clear be prepared to take the penalty.

Edit:

What shouty man should have done is the same thing, slow down then nip inside....


Edited by jeffers - 11 Sep 19 at 12:38pm
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