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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by NickM99

I was sorry when Bewl Valley SC folded a couple of years ago but the "offer" from the current commercial owners of the reservoir is interesting.  You can sail, canoe, SUP, swim, row, and fish,  all for separate fees which aren't particularly cheap, and there are loads of other things to amuse families and small children including cycle hire and an aqua park.  There is camping on site.  To race you pay only £20+ more  on top of the other fees to join the BV Sailing Association. 
In other words something for all the family and potentially a really good day out without ongoing commitments.  As it is "open to the public" it has that sort of feel to it and you see people from many backgrounds there.  If you were starting out as a sailing/water sports family, why would you join a cliquey sailing club which is focussed on racing if such an alternative was available?

Bewl had it coming frankly, their arrogance and pompous attitude did for them long ago.. hauling windsurfers up before a disciplinery committee for sailing near the moorings, no windsurfing on Sundays, good riddance imv, they'd already lost their Solo fleet for whatever reason, they were exactly why dinghy sailing began to falter in the 21st century.

Edited by iGRF - 06 Apr 21 at 7:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by Oatsandbeans

Is that part of our problem-when people come into our sport and”do it badly “?
All of us that have been immersed in the sport since the year dot can look down on newcomers smugly . When I remember the standard of sailing skills around when I started pre lessons let along training and coaching was around -everyone did it badly, but the ones that did better were able to teach themselves and they won the races. Maybe it has got too elitist and it will all disappear up it’s own backside-just like windsurfing has? -discuss


That is a problem, many of us have been doing it so long it's impossible for the average guy/gal to be able to expect to be anywhere near the front of what we do, hence the need for personal handicap at point of entry imv.

As to windsurfing they left the club scene or converted to dinghies in droves in the nineties as planing boards became easier to use with the advent of 'widestyle', then other sports like kitesurfing took their toll, but windsurfers are still around in big numbers, you just don't see them in clubs, why would you? They're about as welcome as the RYA percieve BAME to be. All this time and still no yardstick, so they couldn't race even if you managed to persuade them back.
Ironically recently I've been talking about trying one last time with the resurgent WINDSURFER class with it's new LT. Can you imagine how many hoops I'd have to jump through to establish it as a class here in the UK?

About as easy as getting the first BLM regatta off the ground.

Edited by iGRF - 06 Apr 21 at 7:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 21 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

There appears to be a divide between those who readily volunteer and those that expect everything to be delivered on a plate. 


Appears being operative word David - can you furnish any evidence that this is a specifically modern phenomenon and that the 'old days' were measurably better? Are there even enough young people who can afford to live and work in the South Hams now to even make a comparison? Wink

I would think human nature is such that it is always a small handful of people who do/did most of the work in any organisation, at any point in history.

My experience of membership of a kayak club over several years (members drawn from the same area and comparable membership costs to the sailing club) was that there were plenty of volunteers of all ages, male and female on the comittee and and as coaches. Many of the coaches (often in their 20/30s) had spent significant amounts of money to get their certification to coach...for free. Far bigger involvement of time/money than cutting grass and running races.

At the sailing club it was business at usual - 'young people don't want to volunteer / they are all looking at screens / blah-blah-blah'. To be clear, the club members are individually lovely people, it's just group polarisation: a homogenous group parroting the same evidence-free opinions until they are accepted as 'fact'... 

I also do some fly-fishing, another sport that is traditionally done by well-off white men who were quite happy with its exclusivity, until they realised that soon their numbers will dwindle to the point where they wouldn't be able to pay for their fishing rights. Cue identical (word for word) 'young people today...' posts on fly-fishing forums. Apparently, the rest of society is at fault, but the common denominator is...  Ermm


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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 21 at 7:14am
I am not sure it is a “young thing” problem, except that there are less 20-55 participants at the club.  But I do think that there is a dependency on a particular community of volunteers, and there is a greater number of volunteer posts than people to fill them in our town (rugby club, football club, yacht club, tennis club, gospel choir, WI, council ... 50 or so organizations) in a resident community of 2500.  Also there are a lot of 60+ who have taken a huge amount out of the sport who have not given a lot back despite retirement.
My point made in previous posts is that in order to deliver a scaleable sailing experience to bring people from all walks of life into sailing, a modern sports centre with a slipway, of which WPNSA is a good example, is a good way to do it, and there is more to this than the bricks and mortar.  A dinghy racing club with volunteer overload may be less effective, particularly if there is a turnover and shortage of volunteers, who in any case may not be trained or be the best people to deliver.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 21 at 8:02am
Originally posted by DiscoBall

Originally posted by davidyacht

There appears to be a divide between those who readily volunteer and those that expect everything to be delivered on a plate. 


Appears being operative word David - can you furnish any evidence that this is a specifically modern phenomenon and that the 'old days' were measurably better? Are there even enough young people who can afford to live and work in the South Hams now to even make a comparison? Wink



There has been a 15% decrease in levels of volunteering over a decade in the UK according to the ONS

Combined with the increase in population over the same period this means the number of hours  volunteered by each person fell by 21.5%

These stats are not specific to sports clubs......just general "Volunteering" in the UK.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 21 at 10:04am
Originally posted by 423zero

No good quoting robotic nations like Sweden or Japan etc, British people tend to not like being told what to do, we need to find a way that works with our national character.

in thread about challenging  stereotypes and assumptions  what do we find ...  Stereotypes and assumptions ... 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 21 at 10:40am
I don't think there's much doubt the volunteer demographic has changed. Much the same generation has been running sailing clubs since the 70s. For whatever reason that generation has been unable to hand over to the next in the way their predecessors were able to. There's a meme you'll find that "Oh the old farts won't let go" but when was the last time your sailing club had a contested election?
Its perhaps more to the point that most club officers are guilt tripped into "volunteering" and perhaps its easier to do that to the people you've known for years rather than the next generation?

Edited by JimC - 07 Apr 21 at 10:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 21 at 10:51am
yep.
The world has changed and so have attitudes.

Bewl doesn't appeal to me but that type of organisation does seem to have kept pace (to a certain degree) with the new mindset........which is less likely to volunteer and is more individualistic.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 21 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Snip
My point made in previous posts is that in order to deliver a scaleable sailing experience to bring people from all walks of life into sailing, a modern sports centre with a slipway, of which WPNSA is a good example, is a good way to do it, and there is more to this than the bricks and mortar.  A dinghy racing club with volunteer overload may be less effective, particularly if there is a turnover and shortage of volunteers, who in any case may not be trained or be the best people to deliver.

Have you looked at the costs of keeping a boat at WPNSA? It certainly isn't cheap!

You cannot just rock up and launch from there either IIRC.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 21 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by davidyacht

Snip
My point made in previous posts is that in order to deliver a scaleable sailing experience to bring people from all walks of life into sailing, a modern sports centre with a slipway, of which WPNSA is a good example, is a good way to do it, and there is more to this than the bricks and mortar.  A dinghy racing club with volunteer overload may be less effective, particularly if there is a turnover and shortage of volunteers, who in any case may not be trained or be the best people to deliver.

Have you looked at the costs of keeping a boat at WPNSA? It certainly isn't cheap!

You cannot just rock up and launch from there either IIRC.

Not suggesting that it is cheap.  I have been visiting there for a few years for Solo events.  I am always struck by the level of sporting activity including loads of kids under supervision of instructors, dragon boat racing, triathlons etc. etc.  It appears to me that the sports club with a slipway and paid employees may be the way where watersports will proliferate in the future.  

It may not be what we like or are used to, but the demographics of race and sex are not as set in stone as many clubs, and I don't think that there are the same barriers to participation.
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