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Protesting on the water

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 1:38pm

The incident actually invloved a lad who has been sailing for about 7 years and does know the rules.  He also has a small problem with doing his turns, esp when it comes to club racing.

I feel a lot of shouting coming on

When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

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Post Options Post Options   Quote far canal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 1:53pm

not a lot o shouting , one word --- protest -- and if he don't do turns follow it through , he will soon get the message and respond to your calls .

No point shouting and bawling , slows you down , shout protest and then get on with your race .

Seems from this  scenario you didn't know  the rules , now you do don't let him off .

Rule obeyance in Dinghy racing has become pretty poor , protests are rare .

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 2:48pm

In that case let him have it

I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 3:37pm

getting slightly sidetracked....  if you hit a mark and someone yells protest, distracting you and causing you to hit it again.. could you protest that the hail had been unsportsman like as you had fully intended to do your turns at first opportunity etc??   :-)

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote far canal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 3:59pm

slightly sidetracked into planet absurdity more like

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Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Ian S

getting slightly sidetracked....  if you hit a mark and someone yells protest, distracting you and causing you to hit it again.. could you protest that the hail had been unsportsman like as you had fully intended to do your turns at first opportunity etc??   :-)

 

NO!

mind you if they shouted protest followed by a stream of abuse.......

I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 06 at 10:25pm
Its quite simple yet complicated.

If they should know better then its a hail of protest followed by the paperwork if they don't do their turns - no agression required (and if they can't or don't hear you then I would still follow it up). If they are obviously just starting to race then its a quiet word in the bar but depends on the rule broken as hitting a mark, port starboard, windward leeward should be known by everyone but the incident discussed in the dinghy development forum is a bit esoteric. Anyway I think as experienced racers we should give genuine beginners time and space, after all sailing an extra boat length is a small time penalty compared to getting tangled up with a novice, who on top of that, if upset may never race again.

If you ask novices (just done L2)what puts them off racing they say its the shouting!

If the protest could go either way then its best to stay out of the protest room unless you're prepared to do turns just in case.

The problems are the people in between who you think should follow the rules but aren't that experienced... what I think is give them a chance, but only one.

Anyone who sees an experienced sailor deliberately intimidating a novice with a false call (or bullying) has a duty to lodge a protest under rule 69.

And as a quick straw poll how many here always call starboard without thinking about the tactical situation? no one will own up to that now... I have at times... but on balance (esp in handicap racing)if I'm going to loose less than a 1/3 boat length I don't tend to bother unless I gain an advantage out of it.
Garry

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 06 at 12:21am

a small point - but you cannot protest another competitor under rule 69. Only a protest committee may initiate a hearing under this rule.

Intimidation would be protested under rule 2 Fair sailing. I believe that this rule should be used far more. Swearing, insulting behaviour or language should not be a habitual part of our sport.

On another issue... the rules are the same if you are sailing in an evening club race or the final race of the Olympics. I believe you should always shout protest on the water. I also believe that somone should then explain, calmly, to the novice sailor therules and any infringement they may have made. If someone has infringed the sporting thing to do would be to retire. For club racing maybe an agreed retirement without a hearing should lead to a lesser penalty.The introduction of abitration procedures and other such methods are intended to do this.

The basic rules for beginners are incredibly simple...if only many peopole who have been sailing for years took the trouble to learn them. Here is my version of the Racing Rules of Sailing for beginners (with apologies for the font size and all):

I must keep clear of another boat when:
-I am on port tack and she is on starboard;
-I am to windward;
-I am astern;
-Im tacking,
-I am outside of her and we are about to round a mark or an obstacle.
I must:
-Avoid contact;
-Leave the other boat room to keep clear when I change course or when I acquire a right of way

 

 

Gordon
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 06 at 8:14am
That's pretty good that Gordon.. keeps it nice and simple without getting bogged down in the intricacies of the rules.. see too many people trying to sail the rule book in one on ones whilst the rest of the fleet disappear off into the distance
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 06 at 10:09am

Garry's points are very valid, particularly in the general thrust towards education-

but I still saying that the education must start with the use of the "P word".

It does not need to be shouted!

If we simply talk to a novice or improver post race they will never learn the protocol of how to ensure their own rights over rules issues.

I make a point wherever I am, and no matter what the standard of racing, of simply using the word (having attempted to "coach" my opponent out of the infringement in advance where possible).  And as the first thing I say.

After that, and depending on the reaction I make a decision as to whether to push for turns, do nothing, or take it ashore for protest or discussion.

If discussion I generally try and approach it from the point of view of what do you think happened - what rules do you think applied, and take it from there.

Of course my emotions do get in the way - especially when the stakes are high!

 

 

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