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What gives a boat 'height'?

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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Isis


If the crew is on the wire then I assume you are fairly
powered up - were you dumping power at all? (easing the
sheet)

Just the occasional release in some of the gusts to keep
the boat flat.

Unfortunately no other Vagos to play with but the Laser
2000's were long gone. We we're even struggling to stay
ahead of a single handed 2k.

In light airs we're not too bad at all.

I might see if I can borrow a waterproof camera and mount
it on the thwart.
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Isis



I dissagree with Mr Sparrow about the twist. A lack of height is usualy a sign of too much twist. The upper telltail on the main leach should be streaming about 70-80% of the time depending on the boat and conditions. Trimming for max speed does not give you your best VMG upwind.

If the crew is on the wire then I assume you are fairly powered up - were you dumping power at all? (easing the sheet)


Yes but I was making a big guess on limited info. And just suggesting a little more twist, still keeping a little hook so you can point. It sounded like the top was over hooking and stalling from the original post. But if the wind strength is dropping you have the impression that the crew should be on the wire from earlier sailing out, so it's possible that you are thinking, keep the main pinned in to keep the crew on the wire and stalling everything and ending up dropping off to leeward. Ease the sheet slightly, go a bit faster, get flow on the foils and then squeeze back up a bit. But like you said without see things it's a difficult call.
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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

so it's possible that you are
thinking, keep the main pinned in to keep the crew on the
wire and stalling everything and ending up dropping off
to leeward. Ease the sheet slightly, go a bit faster, get
flow on the foils and then squeeze back up a bit. But
like you said without see things it's a difficult
call.


You could be onto something here. In my head our
advantage over the L2K's is the trapeze. Perhaps in that
particular breeze we should have been hiking it with the
2000s. Chances are I was, as you say, over cranking the
main in an effort to keep her out on the wire. That might
explain why we're not too bad in the light stuff compared
to the 2000s.

Perhaps I need to alter my mindset so that we're hiking
until the boom is some way off the center line and then
get her out on the wire.

She'll enjoy that




P.S. Odd how the Google Chrome browser keeps the line
length short

Edited by ellistine
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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 7:42pm
The trapeze is the advantage - but in marginal stuff your crew must trapeze very high so that they can move in and out according to the puffs and so that you don't have to struggle to keep them right out there.  They should also look at trapezing off the centreboard case occasionally, so they can stay on the wire and still move in and out easily.

I agree with Jack Sparrow - sometimes having everything in too tight has a nasty stalling effect.

I'm hoping to be at Castle cove this weekend for the contender open - maybe I'll see you on the water!
the same, but different...

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Roy Race View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 09 at 8:33am
Originally posted by ellistine


P.S. Odd how the Google Chrome browser keeps the line
length short



Ahh! Me too. I had been wondering why my line lengths
were short but hadn't put 2 and 2 together and
associated it with the browser.
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Roy Race View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 09 at 8:42am
Originally posted by ellistine


Perhaps I need to alter my mindset so that we're hiking
until the boom is some way off the center line and then
get her out on the wire.


Eek! I wouldn't have thought so!

If the boom goes off the centreline, you're dumping
power. Why dump power unless your crew is fully
trapezing?

A good technique upwind in marginal trapezing stuff in
all but the most shifty conditions is this:

Pull the main into the centreline, cleat it and throw
the sheet into the bottom of the boat. Sit on your spare
hand so you can't do anything naughty with it such as
letting the main out when you're less than fully hiked
and trapezing.

A benefit of this is that it gives your crew more
confidence to go out on the wire in a gust, knowing that
it's all her job to keep the boat flat and you're not
about to ease the main as well.

Try it sometime between races.


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ellistine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 09 at 9:07am
Originally posted by winging it

I'm hoping to be at Castle cove this
weekend for the contender open - maybe I'll see you on the
water!

It's our first 'duty' that weekend. I think I'm helping on
the rescue boat so don't go doing anything daft
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Roy Race View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 09 at 9:11am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw1I2Z3-yeE

This is a good training vid for what I mean. Especially
from 6.23 onwards. The crew is marginal wiring, and the
boom never moves from the centreline. This is how it
should be. As a gust arrives, the crew goes out on the
wire with confidence and the boom stays put.

6.23 - 6.44 shows a gust arriving and the crew dealing
with it. Note also the tiller extension being held down
on the deck in the frying pan grip. This can help with
smoother steering.

I think that in a lot of cases, as long as the rig is
set up properly, pointing is largely a function of
technique. It's fairly common to sail a new class for a
year, struggle to point at first, and then find it
becomes easy to achieve as your technique improves, even
though you're not particularly doing anything different
with the rig.


*Google Chrome isn't letting me use the link function.
Sorry, you'll have to copy / paste.*

May consider binning Chrome!
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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 09 at 9:40am
Great bit of video... all I'd add is the 470 has the kicker set to control sail shape. Which is quite different to how ellistine was sailing.
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Roy Race View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 09 at 9:49am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=J5E8jvPWR0s&feature=channel_page

Here's how not to do it. Watch from 8.09 to 8.29. The
helm is:

1) Letting the main out in gusts, when it isn't
required. - I'd advise him to get the main in the
centre, and leave it in the cleat.

2) Holding the extension in an awkward dagger grip,
resulting in too little control over the tiller and
steering an erratic course. - I'd say sit on the side,
hold it by your side and steer in a straight line!

3) Moving around in the boat, making the crew's job
harder. - Sit on the side and sit still!

The helm should trust his crew to keep the boat flat,
instead of trying to do all the jobs himself. These guys
could improve their performance easily with a couple of
hours' coaching on simply improving their straight line
sailing technique.

The thing is, a lot of people will sail like this and
then come into the bar afterwards and complain that they
aren't pointing and start trying to make improvements to
the rig, when it's not the source of the problem. A
small tweak in sailing style can make a lot of
difference.



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