New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Saftey Boat's & prop Guards
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Saftey Boat's & prop Guards

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
zailor View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 09
Location: Penparc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 249
Post Options Post Options   Quote zailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Saftey Boat's & prop Guards
    Posted: 02 Oct 09 at 8:29pm

I have just done a Saftey boat course and the coach/assessor does not beleve in them and thinks they cause more hasstle than they are worth and create a 20% Loss in power.

However, the prob guard website contradicts this claim compleatly.

Also someone tol me there is a law that prob guards must be fitted.
Is it a law or an insurance thing or neither?

Any views welcome?

Back to Top
Andymac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Apr 07
Location: Derbyshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 847
Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 09 at 8:45pm

Case 8 is interesting reading...

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Leisure%20Cra ft%20Safety%20Digest.pdf

The conclusions drawn, do not state any lawful obligation to fit prop guards. It does highlight the danger of unguarded props AND acknowledges that prop guards do adversly affect the performance of the craft.

'It is suggested that the requirement for a propeller guard will depend on the exact role and particular operating conditions that a safety boat is likely to encounter'

It is good to see that you have attended a safety boat course, and that at some stage 'prop awareness' was discussed.

 



Edited by Andymac
Back to Top
zailor View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 09
Location: Penparc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 249
Post Options Post Options   Quote zailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 09 at 9:07pm

Yes its very easy to become paranoid about a 3/4 bladed bit of metal spinning very quickly

 

thanks.

Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom/Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4027
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 09 at 10:04pm
Since when has performance been a criterior of safety boats.

Fundamental rule of all time.

Dinghy sailors and power craft don't mix.

All and every safety mechanism is strongly advised.

Even so it will not prevent flipped craft, seized engines through lack of
oil, craft spinning out of control with ex helm swimming about helplessly
trying to avoid said craft and countless other acts of gros stupidity too
legion to tabulate accurately.

So yes fit a prop guard if you're going to let anyone from a sailing club
near a powered craft.

Even the RYA's own powerboat course and safety boat exam is fatally
flawed - children with loaded guns.

Edited by G.R.F.
Back to Top
Phat Bouy View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jun 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 168
Post Options Post Options   Quote Phat Bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 09 at 11:47pm
Like all "safety devices" many people feel that they are then safe and do not need to exercise proper care and due dilligence.

The devices where originally designed to save the Manatia (?sp) of the American everglades. These gentle creatures were getting chopped up at an alarming rate by props so something had to be done. As with most things, the manufacturers wanted to sell more ....... guess what? Yep, you guessed they now market them as essentialy safety devices. Utter codswallop!!

Having seen our entire safety boat fleet fitted with these things on the pretence of safety whereas in reality they where fitted to cut the cost of the props failing to work on concrete. One of the downsides was that because of the heavy loads induced on the prop bushes because of the lack of speed, we suffered many failed bushes. In one year the cost of failed bushes far exceeded the previous cost of damaged props without the guards fitted. The extra cost of fuel was not even taken into account, though for that year it was up on the previous year by some 25%. Now all guards are removed.

There is no substitute for the proper and correct techniques for PB handling. Just pray that you get a good instructor and you will not know that until you get more experience.

Oh by the way, if you fit a guard and your foot or whatever gets between the prop and the guard then you have ZERO chance of keeping anything ............ without a guard you have a slim chance that you might be knocked away from the prop.

On tickover, about 1000 rpm the gearbox reduces the revs to about 500, there are usually 3 blades on a prop, that means 500 x 3 hits per minute. The moral of the story - keep away from the prop and keep the prop away from people.

There is nothing wrong with the RYA courses - it is down to the quality of the instructor. There is nothing wrong with any sailor helming a safety boat - it is down to the individual and how they were trained.

And finally ........... we have a windsurfing instructor at our club.......knows it all, can do it all, has done it all, will do it all, blah de blah de blah ALL........ bores all

What is it with these bloody whinge surfers??


Edited by Phat Bouy
Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
Back to Top
A Seabadger View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 11 Oct 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 222
Post Options Post Options   Quote A Seabadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 8:06am
We have prop guards fitted at our club. We are a club run by members for members. Although all those doing safety boat duties have thier RYA level 2 each person only does 2-3 duties a year, as a result many people haven't a lot of experience and compitence levels vairy hugely. However we sail on a small pond so our boats aren't required to cover lond distances at speed.

I guess as mentioned above it's each situation on it's own merits.
I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every moment of it.
Back to Top
radixon View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2407
Post Options Post Options   Quote radixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 10:42am
Id say better training and experience are more important than fitting them.

We have them on the centre boats, Ok power loss may be there but I believe it is more piece of mind IF something happened.

I have had to remove a sail from a prop guarded engine after the sail was removed but then propped wrapped itself. Interesting tow that one by another safety boat!
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 1:44pm

On the face of it a very wise and sensible answer Phat Bouy but you ignore reality. As seabadger points out the skill level at most clubs is varied from the minority "skilled" helms to the majority "not experienced enough" helms. Add to that the most dangerous element of all, pontificating old f*rts who think they know what their doing (seems to be high proportion of these in our sport).

Anything that reduces the risk of being "blended" seems a good idea.

Edit.......

I'm not a powerboat freak so know little about available technology. Anyone know anything about water jet outboards. Are they more expensive? Safer? economic?

 



Edited by GK.LaserII
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom/Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4027
Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by Phat Bouy



.And finally ........... we have a windsurfing instructor at our
club.......knows it all, can do it all, has done it all, will do it all, blah de
blah de blah ALL........ bores allWhat is it with these bloody whinge
surfers??


Lucky for you, you should listen to him, being by definition a dinghy
waller therefore in possession of only partial knowledge of all things
maritime yet convinced otherwise..

Maybe he's even got ten years of offshore powerboat racing experience
as well..

And knows that turning an out board motor (as dicated by the RYA
Powerboat safety course) off in any situation, never mind near a lee shore
and in attendance to a rescue situation is stupid since likely as not the
plugs get oiled on two strokes and on occasion can refuse to fire up
especially if a tad warm, or following periods of near idle use...
Back to Top
zailor View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 09
Location: Penparc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 249
Post Options Post Options   Quote zailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 09 at 6:46pm
Well our saftey boat instructor's opinion was the driver ought to be good enough to keep the spinning prop of death away from people and you turn the thing off when around people anyway.

All our saftey crew's have PB level 2 or fastey boat and they do it every other weekend to they have enough time on the water.

We are actually for the new year planning "disaster days" where a group of indipendant sailors have a really crap day and the saftey boats get to fix it.

(note: the sailors wont actually be wrapping themselves in rigging just pretending) so we can practice saftey boat stuff.

We just had our outboard wrecked (shalow bottom+ rocks+ full speed, you do the maths) prop guard was, well gone so I dont think its going back.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy