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Family second boat

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13314
Printed Date: 26 Jun 19 at 9:59am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Family second boat
Posted By: Laurencet
Subject: Family second boat
Date Posted: 26 Apr 19 at 4:39pm
Hi All

Just curious what you would recommend, I have a rs700 that I love sailing and will continue to race. I'm looking for a second boat that I can take my family out in. My Wife is a non sailor and my 4 year daughter would love to join me on quieter days. I sail on the Wash so looking for something with a reasonably shallow draft that's happy in chop.

I had a go in a laser 2000 and wasn't a fan, why is it so heavy???
l could never launch that on my own or pull it back up the beach. (soft shingle beach)

Is there a modern equivalent to the mirror? Ideally with a asymmetric Spinnaker that's made from grp or plastic.

I'm not looking for anything new or shinny would prefer something that I can take out in a storm when it's too windy for the rs700.

Ideally I want to spend less than 1000, I'm not looking to race so it's purely a fun family boat.

I looked at the Weta which ticks most the boxes but they are still so expensive. I wondered about a hobbie beach cat but wasn't sure how stable they are..

Thanks in advance





Replies:
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 26 Apr 19 at 5:24pm
If it was me, I'd have a Miracle every time, they are so underrated and overlooked.

Pretty light, plane in breeze, sym. kite, centreboard, carry weight alright for their size.

I have a mate who's dyed in the wool 505 and he has one as a second boat, loves it.




Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 26 Apr 19 at 6:36pm
Even a Miracle would be difficult to pull over soft sand on your own, can;t think of a single 2 hander that would be easy.


Posted By: andymck
Date Posted: 26 Apr 19 at 6:59pm
Always begs the question of where. And what else is sailed at your club
If you sail a 700 your level of fitness should make light of a 2k over a beech with good wheels.
Most of the utility boats you would be considering to fit another adult and a child in are on the heavy side.
Similar demographic owners at your club will already have looked at the options.
I have to say I was equally dismissive of the 2k until I got one. Because there were lots at my club. I think they are great family boats now.

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Andy Mck


Posted By: Laurencet
Date Posted: 26 Apr 19 at 8:53pm
The miracle looks interesting, are all the frp boats expensive?
There is a nice one on apollo but its 5k. Is it only the new boats that have a Spinnaker?

Pulling a laser 2000 with 2 strong adults wasn't easy.
Especially when your wet cold and been sailing hard for 2 hours, I'm use to sitting in a comfortable trapeze harness.

I still don't understand why the Hull weighs 160kg on a laser 2k,
When a plywood miracle weights 59kg its only 70cm shorter.
I just didn't love it when sailing it.

Just spotted a 505 that's a bargain, shame my daughter is a bit heavier and strong enough to help pull it up the beach.

How cozy would a rs feva be 3 up? I imagine it would be great with just myself and daughter.



Posted By: Laurencet
Date Posted: 26 Apr 19 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by andymck

Always begs the question of where. And what else is sailed at your club
If you sail a 700 your level of fitness should make light of a 2k over a beech with good wheels.
Most of the utility boats you would be considering to fit another adult and a child in are on the heavy side.
Similar demographic owners at your club will already have looked at the options.
I have to say I was equally dismissive of the 2k until I got one. Because there were lots at my club. I think they are great family boats now.


There are alot of laser 2ks at my club, also darts and a few of us with rs700.. I'm not interested in racing though.


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 26 Apr 19 at 9:30pm
I only know of far from new wooden Miracles and they all have kites, only been in one a couple of times and they felt very light and nimble, so that said an entertaining boat to me.



Posted By: Laurencet
Date Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 7:33pm
What are peoples thoughts of the laser 3000?
I had a laser 5000 a long time ago that was great fun, but needed a competent crew.

Has anyone sailed the laser 3000 just on the main?

How does it compare to the laser 2000? 


Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 9:05pm
Chalk n cheese.

Someone I know sails a V3000 (newer slightly lighter 3000 assy kite) solo from the wire for a laugh.


Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 9:48pm
I was going to suggest an L3K,think they're great boats, even better a V3000 but doubt you'd get one at that money, but L3ks can come sub 1500.

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https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals      https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website


Posted By: Laurencet
Date Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by Do Different

Chalk n cheese.
Someone I know sails a V3000 (newer slightly lighter 3000 assy kite) solo from the wire for a laugh.

Must be fun upwind controlling the Jib and main from the trapeze..  Be great to get the wife on the trapeze.
I'm not sure I fancy going out on the wire with my daughter in the boat, I would rather stay a little closer till she gets the idea of things. 

I weigh in at 80kg, my daughter is about 15kg, I wonder how much wind before I got over powered, if I was sailing just on the main and assymetric.. (hiking ony)






Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 27 Apr 19 at 10:25pm
L3k is a nice boat but definitely not a family boat. An Enterprise might suit, well mannered, not too heavy at 96kg plus rig and  comfortable for up to three adults (though 4 is pushing it) and my youngest learned to sail singlehanded in an Ent with a Firefly mainsail and half board (see below). But it is an old design (which has stood the test of time) so may not suit someone used to a 700.

WRT L3k don't bother leaving the jib off, in any wind it'll be unbalanced and unpleasant to sail, the jib is essential to balance the boat (with a centreboard rather than daggerboard you can rake it to move the CLR back but raising a DB is much less effective). 


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 28 Apr 19 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Laurencet

The miracle looks interesting, are all the frp boats expensive?
There is a nice one on apollo but its 5k. Is it only the new boats that have a Spinnaker?

Pulling a laser 2000 with 2 strong adults wasn't easy.
Especially when your wet cold and been sailing hard for 2 hours, I'm use to sitting in a comfortable trapeze harness.

I still don't understand why the Hull weighs 160kg on a laser 2k,
When a plywood miracle weights 59kg its only 70cm shorter.
I just didn't love it when sailing it.

Just spotted a 505 that's a bargain, shame my daughter is a bit heavier and strong enough to help pull it up the beach.

How cozy would a rs feva be 3 up? I imagine it would be great with just myself and daughter.



miracle is perfect for this. it's light to handle on the beach, and surprisingly nice to sail, it performs well enough so as not to be dull but feels pretty stable.
I got a cheapy off ebay to teach the kids to sail - then 10 and 6. I was originally looking for a mirror, but the miracle ended up being a much better choice. I sail on the north sea and it handled the chop and swell very well - the only issue I had was that the spinny chute was prone to being swamped pushing through waves.
So impressed with the boat was I , that I had a new boat built with spinny bags which was a better option - crew bigger by then and able to handle kite. We have now moved on to scorpion for racing, FRP boat on apollo duck is only 12 months or so old, reckon it would have been closer to 7 when new and fully kitted.


Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 28 Apr 19 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by Laurencet


Just spotted a 505 that's a bargain, shame my daughter is a bit heavier and strong enough to help pull it up the beach.


505 needs a big crew and is not a light boat to pull up the beach. TBH anything you buy will be a compromise given the requirement to sail with family and also singlehanded, but, it is a second boat. Miracle is probably a good choice, or a Graduate. An N12 if you want something lively (but I suspect not) or, as I said above, consider an Enterprise, not too heavy, very seaworthy (the first two crossed the channel as a promo stunt) and nice to sail. If you have 3k+ to spend buy a modern FRP one, minimal maintenance and down to weight, if you need a cheap boat you can find a decent wooden boat for a grand or less.


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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"


Posted By: bicrider
Date Posted: 29 Apr 19 at 3:51pm
As has been said before a Miracle would be a good choice. What about an Albacore plenty of older plastic out there. As a 7year old I used to crew for my Dad it was his first boat after learning sail. We have a family of 4 at the club take an older plastic one out on nice days and have no probs. 109kg could be a bit heavy.

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Dart 18 5054 "Willy Flipit"
Finn K333
Yellow (faded) Pico "Willy Tipit"



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